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Monday, June 9, 2014

CrossTalk: Schizophrenic Kiev

19 comments:

Old Ez said...

Plans to ethnically cleanse Novorossiya?

http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/en+ru.en/russian.rt.com/article/35671

Afterthought said...

The schizophrenia is all Putin's.

He cannot decide if the full power of the Russian State should be employed to protect the lives of Russians or not.

Kiev is quite clear minded: do what the West tells them to do at all times.

As an aside, Ukraine is following the same playbook as Saakashvilli's Georgia. Sell out one's own country, subject the population to terror and war with Russia for Western shekels. The Georgian's rejected it in favor of friendly relations will both Russia and the West, will the Ukrainians?

cardinal points said...

On RT, Marine Le Pen made some absolutely great / rational comments on the ongoing situation.

Take for example:

MP: That's a good question. Because we are at the culmination of a Cold War that has been fought against Russia by the United States, to which the European capitals have completely submitted on an international level. It's as simple as that, and a shame as well. And I would like to seize this opportunity to express my compassion and my sadness and my disgust to see these civil victims in the East of Ukraine, who are dying surrounded by the general indifference of the European political world and media. It is a real scandal which is happening on our doorstep, and you are right to say that from the moment Ukraine has a legitimate government, it is the government which must take responsibility. But for this, we would need to demand that the Ukrainian government dismantle and disarm the reigning militia, which would most likely embarrass a number of people.

The comments are on RT and a precis is at: http://lepontduhadu.blogspot.fr/

LeDahu

Anonymous said...

Mr Lavelle avoided the question of Putins/Moscows inavction,I wonder why?

Anonymous said...

Ukraine's acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov has announced plans to deploy all the department’s forces in combat and patrol units to eastern Ukraine for participation in the ongoing military operations against pro-Russia protesters.

“I made the decision - all ... fighting and patrol divisions of the Ministry of Internal Affairs will take part in the anti-terrorist operation,” Avakov wrote on his Facebook page on Monday.
He warned that any member of the ministry, who refuses to join the Ukrainian army’s crackdown on pro-Russians, will be fired.
The Ukrainian acting interior minister also claimed that the move is not only a “necessity” but also a test of “patriotism.”
The remarks came one day after Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko said fighting in the country’s eastern parts must stop this week. He had previously ruled out negotiations with the pro-Russians and vowed to continue the military operations in the region.

Is Lavrov sleeping?

22:06 Lavrov: EU's contacts with Poroshenko will hopefully help settle Ukraine conflict

Patrick Walker said...

I think Putin is feeling the pressure, that's for sure.

His past comments about protecting Russians abroad was just what NATO asked for.

Another point that people fail to mention is that if Poroshenko doesn't pacify the east, it gets no IMF money at all.

Desperate people can be made to do desperate things.

Anonymous said...

I definitely miss the oposition at the crosstalks.
Pete should expose the puppets from the Empire and their supporters. Let the all world know who they are.It was commented also before on some blog, but definitely it is the spice what is missing

JohnM said...

That last part about assassinations at the end makes me wonder whether Kiev understands what they may be unleashing.

Assassination cut both ways. If the rebels (or Putin) come to the conclusion that it is an "accepted" tactic in this clusterfuck, then the oligarchs and the other pricks who started it better start living in bunkers.

That would be a tough genie to stuff back in the bottle. And that's why its use is so "limited" at higher levels.

After all, anybody can be an assassin.

Anonymous said...

Terrible news.

I wanted to post this in another thread, but there were so many comments there, I feared it would not be read. I hope I don't break a rule.

The president of Russia has for 14 years advanced on several fronts at the same time. Pensions, defence, diplomacy, economy and much more. Medvedev alone had four conflicting goals the first time he was prime minister. Vladimir Putin surely has good reasons for not intervening in Ukraine at this point. He also has access to information we can only dream of. It is important to try to understand how he thinks.

As I understand it, only as I understand it, he has a timeline for events. Russia will most probably intervene in the end, but first several other objectives must be met. The deal with China is a case in point. A solution to Ukraines unpaid gas bill is also important. A cushion against dangerous economic sanctions. A re-organization of Russias economy. Start of domestic production, especially of important electronic components. An attempt to send humanitarian aid in cooperation with international partners, instead of working alone. Intensive diplomacy and other projects I cannot name.

I have studied Putin a little over the years. Sometimes, not always, I have been able to foresee his next move. So it was, when he was in Sochi. I could almost hear the wheels in his mind move and I was not surprised at what happened in Krim/Crimea. He always tries to identify all consequences of his actions and he relies on good advisors.

The military plans for Krim were worked out long before the attempted NATO takeover of the base. The plans for Eastern Ukraine, and there are several I imagine, are also only waiting implementation. I wrote several plans. I think Vladimir Putin never stubbornly follows just one path. He adapts to changing circumstances and considers all fronts. He wants plan A,B,C to cover every possible situation.

That being said, those who want Russian military intervention will most probably see it materialize in the end. When the crisis started, suspecting the buildup would be slow and painful, I expected a dangerous confrontation in July/August.

This is only as I understand it. At least, I hope to have made clear what a terrible responsibility the president of Russia carries on his shoulders. Nicholas the second lost the Crimean war. Putin has a painting of him in the office. Such small details say a lot. Understanding the person may help us understand his decisions. This is a man, who loves his country and his people, of that I am sure, and I say that as a man in western Europe, not in Ukraine or Russia.

This blog is one of the best on the net. I thank the Saker and many commentators.

JohnM said...

@anonymous 09 June, 2014 21:57

There is much emotion from those that see the bloodshed in eastern Ukraine, and rightly so. Putin is going to do what is best as he sees it with the information he has.

When he moves, eastern Ukraine (and the south) will probably be resigned to what he decides (which will a great deal better than what is now).

As for the US manipulated group in Kiev, as they say..... If your hunting big game, bring it down with your first shot.

Unknown said...

And yet, in his very first speech after his inauguration address on his new website, Poroshenko says:
http://president.gov.ua/en/news/30503.html
The first meeting of trilateral contact group on the implementation of peaceful plan in the east of Ukraine took place

Today, President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko opened the meeting of trilateral contact group on the implementation of peaceful plan in the east of Ukraine submitted by him on June 6, in the course of the visit to France.

In the course of the meeting attended by Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Ukraine to the Federal Republic of Germany Pavlo Klimkin, Special Representative of the OSCE Secretary-General Heidi Tagliavini and Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation Mikhail Zurabov, the Head of State emphasized that the parties must work over the implementation of the arrangements achieved in Normandy in the course of the meeting with Federal Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany Angela Merkel, President of France François Hollande and President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin.

"We must cease fire this week. Each day when people die, when Ukraine pays such a high price is inadmissible for me. That is why we must first of all restore the work of the state border of Ukraine in order to guarantee the security of all Ukrainian citizens living in the Donbas irrespective of their political views," the President of Ukraine noted.

The Head of State suggested holding the meeting of trilateral contact group every day in order to analyze what has been done and coordinate further actions on the implementation of the plan for peaceful settlement in the east of Ukraine.
=======
Schizophrenic indeed.
Since it must be obvious by now that the Kiev forces cannot win back Donetsk-Lugansk by force, diplomacy is the only way.

Observer said...

Stelkov June 8th Siterep and explanation of his earlier fear of not enough recruits Part 1:

Translation by Gleb Bazov: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s22khu)

Col Strelkov:
I logged on with a purpose of writing down a few lines, while thankfully we have a quiet period here. The Ukrainians are waiting for rocket deliveries. I repeatedly read comments of the following kind: “Why should Russia help those who refuse to fight for themselves?” As if 90% of Slavyansk residents are hiding at home. And the writers refer to my statements, saying: “Strelkov said it himself.” I consider it my duty to provide an explanation:

If we had sufficient weapons, then the Slavyansk garrison alone would have numbered several thousand fighters.
If we an ability not only to arm (as well as provide clothing and shoes to) our fighters, but also to support their families financially, at least at the level of an average local salary (do not forget, people come to risk their lives!), then in Slavyansk alone we already would have had a division and had to deal with a line-up waiting for weapons.
If we had a secure rear (and an army at war is critically dependent on a secure rear), then we could have conducted a mobilization that would have given us tens of thousands of fighters, and people who are even now working (and I mean really working, not lying around on couches like the great multitude of office plankton in Russia’s megalopoli, who have long ago forgotten what it is like to work in industry and in the mining sector) would have readily and en masse come to our aid.

There will always be a dearth of volunteers. My recent video address (concerning the lack of men willing to fight) was intended NOT FOR RUSSIANS, BUT FOR DONBASS RESIDENTS, and was aimed at slightly increasing the numbers of recruits. The video address achieved its goal. Now we have almost too many recruits, but we have neither weapons, nor shoes, nor uniforms to equip them and to put them into action. The assistance that now comes from Russia (NB: Strelkov is referring to weapons and volunteers that arrive on a private basis) WAS NEEDED A MONTH AGO. AT THAT TIME, IT COULD HAVE BROUGHT US SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS. As things stand now, this assistance is barely allowing us to stand our ground, but gives us no chance to turn the tide in our favour (see earlier post about “the chewing of a certain substance by the Kremlin bureaucracy.”) We have nothing, everything is delayed by not just days, but weeks. And laugh all you want, but Ukrainians significantly outpace us. However clumsy their machine may be, it is now directed by competent guys from overseas, although I can only imagine how they rage and climb the walls because of Ukrainian slowness and screw-it-all siesta attitude, which just about how I feel about their Russian counterparts. And these guys are chasing the dilapidated machine forward with kicks, forward to eliminate and to erase Novorossiya from the face of the earth. And with their other hand, they throw the Kremlin various carrots in the form of “partial payment for gas,” “negotiations”, and so on. And days turn into weeks, weeks into months, and still we have no real help, and the successes we achieved early on, while on the rise, have long ago dissipated. The stick bends and bends, it cracks and fractures, but for now it still bends. When the stick finally snaps, with a crunch, it will be much too late. WE NEED RUSSIA’S HELP NOW LIKE WE NEED AIR TO BREATHE! We are ready to die on the ruins of Slavyansk, but we need reason firmly to believe that the dead and the wounded that fell to the unending howitzer fire were not sacrificed in vain! A firm belief that it was not for nothing that we took a stand and brought war with us into this beautiful city and that the victims among its population were not in vain! But our faith rips, it is torn by storm winds like thin plastic polyethylene stretched out against the face of a hurricane, and every day it rips deeper and deeper.

Observer said...

Stelkov June 8th Siterep and explanation of his earlier fear of not enough recruits Part 2:

Translation by Gleb Bazov: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s22khu)

And as for the freaks who preach about the “lack of political and economic rationale for Russians in defending the South-East,” I would have … no, I would not have had them shot! Here we have what has become a standard punishment: the “penal sapper squad.” They dig trenches under fire in Semyonovka. Well, I would have sent these freaks to this squad for a week, so as to help them remember that first and foremost they are Russians, and only second “Russian citizens.”

Observer said...

Stelkov June 9th Siterep:

Translation by Gleb Bazov: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s22khu)

At 4:30am Ukies bombed Semyonovka using a civilian transport as cover. The SU jet fighter was positioned behind it, then came out from behind, dropped a bomb, and then hid again. One more civilian object destroyed. At about 9:00 in the morning there was a brief but intense artillery barrage against the Artyom township from Mount Karachun. Two civilians were killed, one was wounded. Direct howitzer fire was employed. Once again they are pulling forces here from the direction of Izyum. Snipers are active from the direction of Mount Karachun. Mobile communication is virtually non-existent in the city. The internet works only in places. We still have no water supply. Apparently, Avakov offered some form of humanitarian ceasefire at Slavyansk yesterday, as well as some form of green corridor. The artillery shelling and the airstrikes are apparently supposed to demonstrate their peace-loving nature. Oh, well. It’s not like we had any illusions to begin with. Right now we’ve delivered a retribution thrust on the Grad system in the area of the checkpoint in Krasniy Liman. We took revenge with a vengeance for yesterday’s. One machine has been completely destroyed; there was a detonation of the ammunition. I think they will start shelling the city soon. They are the best at it. As for the rally, I will be with the participants with all my soul. The engineering obstacle clearing vehicle is now being repaired. Tomorrow it will be in working condition again.

Anonymous said...

Hello JohnM,

I have never answered a comment before, so I hope this works.

What I think of the junta in Kiev is not printable.

I understand those who see the suffering in Ukraine and want Russian help. You and I see it. Many on this blog do. I have only tried to explain why it may take some time before help arrives.

Anonymous said...

It is a Fact that if you have seen the Chocolate King or Chocolate Dictator of Ukraine, then you have seen the chocolate coloured King or Dictator of Ukraine and the Dictator of the European Union, and that is Barack Obama.

The West tries to refer to the Chocolate King as the Candy Tycoon, because they know that a Chocolate King was chosen to Subtlety Refer to the Real Chocolate King of Ukraine, and of the European Union, but Once a Chocolate King, then Always a Chocolate King.

It is Very Subtle and Real, and it is Undetectable by those who do not have Experience of one Aspect of how the Evil American Empire works.

Experience rather than Intelligence is needed, because even a dog can be made to understand from Experience, and Intelligence is not necessary, except for it to be above a low minimum level, because even the Highly Intelligent Inexperienced cannot Perceive this, unless it is explained to them.

The Evil American Empire works on Hubris, and on leaving Subtle Clues for Themselves on which they do find Much Amusement, and which is a Function or a Consequence of their Evil and their Hubris.

America has admitted that it Spent 5 Billion Dollars on Ukraine since its Independence.

It is Falsely Claimed that this was for Democracy, but this was for keeping Ukraine poor so that it would affect Russia's Economy.

The other reason was for Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons, because Ukraine could not join NATO if it had nuclear weapons, and because those weapons may have been used against Europe.

America Spies on other Countries and on Ukraine, and they have the Dirt on Most European Union Leaders, and they have become their Puppets, because they do not want to go to Jail.

America was able to Bribe enough People in Ukraine to achieve these things, because America wants to surround Russia with NATO Countries for WW 3.

This is a Feature of how America Dictates to its Puppets, and it shows the Mockery of Democracy.

The term that America supports someone, really means that America Supports or Orders to be the Puppet Master over the Puppet, but a Euphemism of Support is used to Deceive People.

The Puppet Select in Ukraine who is also referred to by the Puppet Master America as the President elect of Ukraine, and President Barack Obama is Secretly Ordering his Ukrainian Puppets such as Petro Poroshenko on what they MUST do.

Ukraine's Puppet Select Petro Poroshenko, is called the Chocolate King, but he is a Chocolate Puppet, because the chocolate coloured American President Barack Obama is the Real King or Dictator of Ukraine, and the Real King or Dictator of the European Union, and Nazism is a Sweet as Chocolate to America and to their European Nazi Puppets.

We have heard the Chocolate Puppet Petro Poroshenko say that "My pen is in my hand" to sign European Union pact of Austerity and Misery for Ukraine, and we have to put two consecutive words together in that quote to understand what is Really in the hand of the Chocolate Puppet and of the Chocolate Puppet Master at http://euobserver.com/foreign/124525 .

To understand this, then they may join the second and third words of "My pen is in my hand" to understand this, along with knowing that there is a female version of this.

There are Totally Callous People, both Male and Female who Love to Masturbate when they see Bloodshed, Murder, and when they see Poverty, because this is the Only thing that gives them those Really Satisfying Orgasms at http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-controls-our-government-the-psychopathic-corporate-elites-of-america/5371627 .

The Professional Liars will Slander Viktor Yanukovych over Ukraine's Economic Problems, but All of the Bribed Puppets since Ukraine's Independence are there in Ukraine's Political Scene.

We now understand more of America's Definition of Human Rights and Good Governance, and Democracy, and Libya and Syria are a few other Examples of America's Definition of Human Rights, Good Governance, and Democracy.

cardinal points said...

Judging by the articles and videos, Italians might end up fighting Italians.

Deja vu Spanish Civil War? Now in Ukraine??


Links on http://lepontduhadu.blogspot.fr/

LeDahu

cardinal points said...

Soutien au peuple du Donbass

en français

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Agir-pour-Donbass/610002712432216

J’espère pouvoir mettre en contact
les gens francophones qui soutiennent le peuple du Donbass, y compris:

regrouper des gens pour promouvoir
de l'aide morale et de l'aide humanitaire.

On passe a l'action!

merci bcp
Le Dahu

Anonymous said...

I don't know if the following link has already been posted but I found it really interesting. The analysis starts at 1'45" :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xbBuWlpZNk